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Yes, I’m a Bad American

I am your worst nightmare.

I am a bad American.

I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some mid-level governmental functionary be it Democratic or Republican!

I’m in touch with my feelings and I like it that way!

I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized, and does not entitle you to anything.

I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, do it in English.

I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God when and where they want to.

My heroes are John Wayne, Babe Ruth, Roy Rogers, and whoever canceled Jerry Springer.

I don’t hate the rich.

I don’t pity the poor.

I know wrestling is fake and I don’t waste my time watching or arguing about it.

I’ve never owned a slave, or was a slave, I haven’t burned any witches or been persecuted by the Turks and neither have you!

So, shut up already.

I believe if you don’t like the way things are here, go back to where you came from and change your own country!

This is America.

I want to know which church is it exactly where the Reverend Jesse Jackson preaches, where he gets his money, and why he is always part of the problem and not the solution.

Can I get an “amen” on that one?

I think the cops have every right to shoot your sorry rear if you’re running from them.

I also think they have the right to pull you over if you’re breaking the law, regardless of what color you are.

And, no, I don’t mind having my face shown on my drivers license. I think it’s good. And I’m proud that “God” is written on my money.

I think if you are too stupid to know how a ballot works, I don’t want you deciding who should be running the most powerful nation in the world for the next four years.

I dislike those people standing in the intersections trying to sell me stuff or trying to guilt me into making “donations” to their cause.

I believe that it doesn’t take a village to raise a child, it takes two parents.

And what is going on with gas prices ?again?

I believe “illegal” is illegal no matter what the lawyers think.

I believe the American flag should be the only one allowed in America!

If this makes me a bad American, then yes, I’m a bad American.

{ 60 comments… add one }

  • Michelle D April 30, 2008, 12:27 pm

    Wow, this is great. I must be a bad American also!

  • nanacarol April 30, 2008, 1:45 pm

    This was the best!! Amen to all that was written. i just WISH MORE OF US WOULD STAND UP AND LET IT KNOWN!

  • delmar April 30, 2008, 2:12 pm

    I guess that makes me a bad American now doesn’t it!

  • kiar April 30, 2008, 4:31 pm

    I can ‘t claim I am a bad American, and that makes me sad! (To clarify, I am Canadian, not that I don’t agree with everything on that list, cause I do!)

  • Lewis_Family April 30, 2008, 4:39 pm

    If ever an article deserved a “right on”, it would be this one. Right on!

  • JustRandi April 30, 2008, 7:36 pm

    We used to call these things “common sense”. What happened?

  • Michelle D April 30, 2008, 8:46 pm

    Hey JustRandi, I’ve seen you comment on other blogs; glad you have commented here at MM! I like the thoughts that you share.

  • facethemusic May 1, 2008, 7:08 am

    HA! I think my favorite part was calling the person who cancelled Jerry Springer a “hero”!!
    It’s all too true!!

  • Naismith May 1, 2008, 9:28 am

    I don’t know what to make of this. Is it supposed to be funny?

    Why would any of this make someone a “bad” American? The heart of America is accepting all viewpoints, without judging.

    I just find the staments simplistic, some true at face value, but sad if that were the full extent of the answer.

    For example,

    I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some mid-level governmental functionary be it Democratic or Republican!

    I believe the money I make is a gift from God, to be used as a stewardship, and I don’t mind paying taxes when it goes to provide disaster relief, public school education, and health care for those who can’t otherwise afford it.

    I also think they have the right to pull you over if you ?re breaking the law, regardless of what color you are.

    I don’t disagree. The question is whether they have the right to pull over a Hispanic for the offense of being brown-skinned in Connecticut. And also what happens to the people pulled over. Some years back, most of the young men in my ward broke into a public swimming pool at 2 a.m. and were caught skinny dipping. Honor students and eagle scouts, but most importantly white-skinned, they were released to their parents and have gone on to become doctors and teachers and respected citizens. If they had been black, they might still be in prison. Numerous studies attest to racial/ethnic disparities in judicial sentencing.

    I believe that it doesn ?t take a village to raise a child, it takes two parents.

    And where do you get your health care? Is it through your employer? If so, aren’t you relying on “the village” instead of doing it all yourself?

    We could go on.

    Oh, and my heroes are Jane Addams, Roger Sherman, Margaret Sanger, Tipper Gore, and Jay Rockefeller.

  • davidson May 1, 2008, 10:22 am

    I am a bad American. And an even worse Christian.

    I believe that the money I make belongs to me and my family. Never mind that the Savior directed his prophet to ask, “Will you persist in turning your backs upon the poor and the needy, and in withholding your substance from them?”

    I am in touch with my feelings, not yours, and I like it that way. Paul said, “And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.”
    But he wasn’t talking to me. He said that to another people, in another place, at another time. Out-dated direction from an out-dated prophet.

    I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized, and does not entitle you to anything. ‘Course, I’ve never been a minority, but I understand your predicament perfectly.

    I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, do it in English. I have money to buy all the Big Macs I want, so that gives me the right to dictate my preferences. Sucks being you.

    I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God when and where they want to. But of course, God answers every prayer personally. I have no obligation to be the answer to someone else’s prayers. God just doesn’t work that way.

    My heroes are John Wayne, Babe Ruth, Roy Rogers, and whoever canceled Jerry Springer. My heroes are white. Your heroes are worthless.

    I don’t hate the rich. I don’t care about the rich.

    I don’t pity the poor. I don’t care about the poor.

    I know wrestling is fake and I don’t waste my time watching or arguing about it. I’m too busy being outspoken about things that DO matter, like my opinions.

    I’ve never owned a slave, or was a slave, I haven’t burned any witches or been persecuted by the Turks, and neither have you! Therefore you have no right to be empathic toward your ancestors,
    or mine, who WERE. The past is gone forever.

    So, shut up already. Because I’m speaking here. And what I have to say is important.

    I believe if you don’t like the way things are here, go back to where you came from and change your own country. The Savior meant for us to be divisive. He will never be the King of Kings and Lord of Lords over the entire earth. He just wouldn’t expect peace and cooperation among nations. Especially not now.

    This is AMERICA. I thought I’d tell you, because I am sure you don’t know.

    I want to know which church is it exactly where the Reverend Jesse Jackson preaches, where he gets his money, and why he is always part of the problem and not the solution. Of course, he’s never helped anybody. He’s an absolute zero.

    Can I get an “amen” on that one? Because I don’t want to be alone in my sweeping prejudice.

    I think the cops have every right to shoot your sorry rear if you’re running from them. Ask questions later. Or not at all, because dead men don’t lie. That’s how it ought to be. Never mind that hundreds of people have been imprisoned for life on false accusations. Serves them right for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    I also think they have the right to pull you over if you’re breaking the law, regardless of what color you are. Of course, I never break the law. I never speed. I always wear my seatbelt, every single time. I am a perfect citizen, Sunday through Monday. A perfect WHITE citizen. And that makes all the difference.

    And no, I don’t mind having my face shown on my drivers license. Dang, I pull it out often just to see how good lookin’ I am. And I’m proud that “God” is written on my money. Then He and I can be alone together, because I’m certainly not handing MY money out.

    I think if you are too stupid to know how a ballot works, I don’t want you deciding who should be running the most powerful nation in the world for the next four years. People who need directions really bug me. People who need directions and don’t understand them when they are given are pathetic losers. I understand directions the first time, every time. Or at least I would if I needed directions.

    I dislike those people standing in the intersections trying to sell me stuff or trying to guilt me into making “donations” to their cause. I’ve never been sick or hungry or desperate, and people who are annoy me. Every last one of them is a farce.

    I believe that it doesn’t take a village to raise a child, it takes two parents. And with a wonderful parent like me, maybe only one.

    And what is going on with gas prices. . .again? It cost A WHOLE THREE DOLLARS MORE to fill up my gas tank this week than it did last week. Guess I’ll have to skip one Big Mac, and you know how I feel about that.

    I believe “illegal” is illegal no matter what the lawyers think. In fact, all those professionals sicken me. Who do they think they are, just because they’ve had years of experience and schooling? They could have skipped the whole process. It wouldn’t cost a thing to ask me.

    I believe the American flag should be the only one allowed in AMERICA! Those school kids who study other nations and bring other flags to school to give reports? They should be flogged. Little traitors, trying to learn about any other nation but our own.

    If this makes me a bad American, then yes, I’m a bad American. When Jesus said, “With what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged,” he was just kidding. I’m a white American. He’ll make an exception for me.

  • delmar May 1, 2008, 11:47 am

    For what its worth and not to sound racist, but here goes.

    I’ve been in the minority before. Sometimes it feels odd, sometimes it feels no different.

    Here in California the “white folk” are quickly becoming the minortiy. When I lived in Southern California about a stones throw from the border, guess what I was…A MINORITY. Did I get any added benefits, NOPE. The majority did. I also fell into a MAJORITY group considering we were military. Did we get any added benefits then? Sorta, but we also dealt with being persecuted at points. I REALLY enjoyed being yelled at and having things thrown at my vehicle by war protestors. Lovely!!!

    When I lives in South East Colorado I was once again a MINORITY. Did I get any added benefits, NOPE. The majority did.

    To me, whats interesting is that people think “being part of the minority” entitles you to special benefits, etc, etc. Thats so not true anymore! Its not monority or majority based. Its color based and thats wrong!

  • davidson May 1, 2008, 11:57 am

    Oh, and Bad American? Hi. My name is Serena Davidson, and I live in Iona, Idaho, in the United States of America. Alison likes to have people who write articles for Mormon Momma sign their real names–you know, so they can be held accountable for what they say. I noticed your real name isn’t included. Did you not read the directions? Or did you not understand them when you read them? Or did you think they didn’t apply to you?

    What? Your name is A. Bunker? Wow, it is a pleasure to know you. I’ve seen your show. We watch it in the evening when we need a good laugh. Sometime, when you’re on the way to the Idaho Falls Temple, stop in and see us. The door is always open.

  • jennycherie May 1, 2008, 12:05 pm

    Posted By: davidsonHi. My name is Serena Davidson, and I live in Iona, Idaho, in the United States of America.

    this was not written by our normal davidson because we have seen enough of her words to know her heart is not what has been reflected in the two previous posts. The original post for this thread was listed as a “Guest Author” not because someone did not want to sign their name but because it is a document that has been widely circulated. Alison can clarify this but I do not believe that this was written specifically for this website.

  • davidson May 1, 2008, 12:21 pm

    Even normal davidsons have their limits.

    So if a document is widely circulated, the authorship doesn’t need to be revealed? Guest Author can be brave enough to say it, but not brave enough to claim it? ANYWHERE?

    Sorry, Jenn. I’m not yelling at you. Thank you for the gentle reminder to shape up. I have a tendency to let things that really bug me boil around inside me until I blow up. I could have said it in a nicer, calmer way. Two nastys don’t make a nice.

    I am not the shrinking violet you think I am. I have opinions, strong ones, but most often I think that peace is more important than passion. Now and then, when I feel really strongly about something, I’ll speak up in opposition. But I know I need to work on the delivery.

  • jennycherie May 1, 2008, 12:27 pm

    Posted By: davidsonEven normal davidsons have their limits.

    I think we’ve seen you steamed plenty of times but not with a response like that.

    Posted By: davidson
    So if a document is widely circulated, the authorship doesn’t need to be revealed?

    It’s likely not known.

  • jennycherie May 1, 2008, 12:30 pm

    by the way, my apologies if I was mistaken. I sincerely thought someone else had signed into your account and was posting for you.

  • naomlette May 1, 2008, 12:44 pm

    Davidson, I completely agree with your response. When I first read the original post, my reaction was “Wow! Someone sure is pissed off.” While there are a lot of things that need to be fixed in this country, the biggest problem I see is the people judging other people as bad or wrong because they don’t agree on what it means to be an American. If you don’t want to be judged poorly for your opinions, don’t judge others poorly because of theirs. There is a reason they are called opinions and not facts.

  • Lewis_Family May 1, 2008, 12:53 pm

    I think Guest Author also means not of the official circle. My christmas article was guest author but my name too was inlcuded in the text, but that’s just a two cent throw in from my direction.

  • Michelle D May 1, 2008, 4:59 pm

    FWIW, I read this as a completely tongue-in-cheek caricature, satire, a bad attempt at humor to show how things can sometimes be portrayed, understood, and accepted here. Things *aren’t* what they used to be. Sometimes that is good and sometimes it just isn’t. I don’t agree with special benefits as they are being doled out currently. Sorry, but that’s how I view it. I thought this was funny because I didn’t take it to be serious.

    And to fill my gas tank this week took far more than the price of a Big Mac over what it cost me last week. I was lucky and hit one of the few places at $3.49 (most were at $3.54), and within a few blocks prices were being changed to $3.65. OUCH! This is a record high for our area. (I know there are other regions that are worse, CA and others.) I literally hit that miraculous 10 minute window before prices jumped… again. Gas is costing me almost as much as my groceries each week! I can’t say I like that or agree with it.

    And hi, Serena. I’m glad to know your first name! Mine is… Michelle. No pseudonyms here.

  • kiar May 1, 2008, 5:35 pm

    I love when davisdson goes in to full swing, it is a sight to see! Love ya davidson, don’t ever change!:whorship:
    and, jenny, I can see how you were a tad confused, since she is usually much more… tactfull(?)! but as she says, even a davidson can get pushed too far!

  • Naismith May 1, 2008, 7:24 pm

    “And to fill my gas tank this week took far more than the price of a Big Mac over what it cost me last week.”

    Of course those of us “bleeding-heart liberals” who care about climate change and believe in global warming are much less affected by this, since we already own hybrids (we average 48 miles per gallon on our Prius) and try to commute by bicycle and public transport whenever possible (I don’t think we fill the car tank twice a month).

    I still don’t think USAmerican gas prices come close to what they have been in Europe for decades. I have sympathy for individual families, but overall it’s the best thing that could happen to our country to stimulate policy changes (like making plug-in battery operated cars widely available here, which they have been in Switzerland for years).

  • kiar May 1, 2008, 7:41 pm

    wow, it must be wonderful up on that beautiful pedastel you get to live on.

  • Alison Moore Smith May 1, 2008, 7:50 pm

    Posted By: NaismithThe heart of America is accepting all viewpoints, without judging.

    Oh, puhleeeeze! I suppose the founding fathers didn’t make a tad of judgment. They just fell into the revolution while sipping some strong tea.

  • kiar May 1, 2008, 7:51 pm

    I am rolling on the floor laughing my head off, Alison! hee hee! (I love your Sarcasm!)

  • Naismith May 1, 2008, 9:34 pm

    Oh, puhleeeeze! I suppose the founding fathers didn’t make a tad of judgment. They just fell into the revolution while sipping some strong tea.

    I’m sure this is supposed to be funny, but I can’t quite bring myself to laugh, since I’ve been thinking a lot about those days. I’m reading THE FOUNDING MOTHERS for RS book club this month, and I just got back from a week in Philadelphia, immersing ourselves in the past to help a daughter prepare for the AP American History exam.

    I really think the founders did amazingly well at tolerating diverse viewpoints. In particular, the issue of slavery was potentially divisive, but they allowed each state to do what they wanted. That was huge.

    On several issues, New Englanders had much more in common with their cousins across the sea than their brothers in arms from the Southern colonies. The differences were much more daunting than today’s divisions of red vs. blue ideology and yet they were able to accept each other and work together for a common goal.

  • davidson May 1, 2008, 10:13 pm

    Yes, yes, Alison, those founding fathers need a WalMart tea-pusher like me. Heave ho!

  • Lewis_Family May 1, 2008, 10:23 pm

    To me this discussion was supposed to be light, when did the scuba divers arrive and make it all deep and heavy?

  • kiar May 1, 2008, 10:31 pm

    its what Naismith does, tries to make everyone feel all down and stuff! I am so tired of her poor spirit! she is a real downer, and takes offence to EVERYTHING! even if it has nothing to do with her. It kinda sad!

  • kiar May 1, 2008, 10:31 pm

    Glugg, glugg, hope no one gets the bends!

  • Lewis_Family May 1, 2008, 10:32 pm

    ha ha, dude I so had a tongue lashing for her and then deleted it because it is what she seems to be searching for, wanting those kind of reactions… I just don’t think she is happy in life, and though it be what she is looking for, I wasn’t going to add to it

  • kiar May 1, 2008, 10:45 pm

    Nice! yah, she used to get into it with davidson,(poor woman) ripping her apart until Alison told her to back off! She can be a real pill! I try to stay out of her sites, I don’t like getting caught in the crossfire either. Sometimes I wish I could reach through the screen and smack her.
    Did you read her “I am so better than all of you because I drive a Prius?” Ack, I threw up a little!

  • Lewis_Family May 1, 2008, 10:47 pm

    I almost commented on that, you don’t even know how close I was to ripping that one, makes her sound like a rich witch, if you know what I mean. Davidson bugged me too for awhile, I had to get past that, and look into her soul/spirit more than her comments, we butted heads a few times, I don’t knwo if you remember the lingerie discussion, but now she doesn’t bug me… so here’s hoping naismith gets to that level, doubt it, but there is always hope… what are her sites?

  • Alison Moore Smith May 2, 2008, 12:08 am

    Posted By: NaismithI really think the founders did amazingly well at tolerating diverse viewpoints.

    Tolerating SOME contrasting viewpoints is nothing akin to “accepting all viewpoints, without judging.” You can’t even determine whether or not a viewpoint is diverse without judging it, let alone move to tolerate it.

  • Alison Moore Smith May 2, 2008, 12:11 am

    FWIW, I feel very blessed by global warming today. May 1st and it snowed here. Just think what would’ve happened if we didn’t have global warming! :shocked:

  • Oregonian May 2, 2008, 12:13 am

    Posted By: NaismithI’m sure this is supposed to be funny, but I can’t quite bring myself to laugh

    Now there’s a shocker.

  • facethemusic May 2, 2008, 7:37 am

    My goodness!! Where’d all this come from? I’m kind of surprised that this was taken so seriously, turned into an accusation of a racist tirade, and made into such a mountain!

    Now come on Davidson, don’t you know us well enough by now, haven’t you had enough discussions with us, read enough of our comments, know our basic personalities and thoughts and feelings to know that a statement like this:

    I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some mid-level governmental functionary be it Democratic or Republican!

    …does not mean THIS, to us?

    My money is mine. I will pay no tithing, no fast offering, no taxes. I don’t care if people starve, I don’t care if people go naked. I don’t care what the Savior said.
    I don’t care if we have no roads and have to go back to horses. I don’t care if no one gets educated or immunized. Oh? You’re homeless and you’re children are sick? Oh well, sucks to be you!My money is mine, period.

    I know you KNOW that none of us think that way or feel that way, so why the Sunday School lesson, scripture references and chastisement?

    Nothing that you ADDED is anything that anyone here intended in our agreement with the post.
    The post didn’t say ANYTHING that you ADDED to it by your OWN interpretation of it. There wasn’t the racist insertions that YOU put into it when you crititqued it. Your whole post was nothing but a nasty interpretation, with alot of added innuendo.

    Did you have a bad day, or what? Is something else bothering you? I expected this from Naismith, but not from you.

  • kiar May 2, 2008, 8:16 am

    I meant laser/gun sites! lol!

  • Ray May 2, 2008, 8:26 am

    It’s moments like this that make me glad I’m a testosterone carrier. Just saying. :wink:

  • davidson May 2, 2008, 11:39 am

    (Saying sadly) You, too, Tracy? You know I love you.

    At a website called “MORMON” Momma, it isn’t okay to quote the Book of . . .MORMON? Even as you are busy quoting scriptures on other threads? It’s not okay to appeal to the Savior’s words and words of his prophets when questions arise? Or are we only to offer ancient and modern prophets’ words in SUPPORT of something said, never when it might REFUTE something said? It’s a “Sunday School lesson”, a “chastisement”, if it’s not compliant with the current thread of thought? Are you. . .possibly. . .judging that I’m judging? Sarcasm understands sarcasm. I exaggerated the things I wrote in my response to highlight the exaggeration in the original essay, not to declare my personal beliefs.

  • facethemusic May 2, 2008, 1:16 pm

    You kill me, Ray. :)

    Davidson– we quote the Book of Mormon on here all the time. You know that. I didn’t say you COULDN’T or SHOULDN’T quote the Book of Mormon. And of course people can use the scriptures to refute something. We do THAT all the time too. The problem with your “refuting” was that it strongly incinuated uncaring, nasty, hostile and racist thoughts and feelings of the writer and anyone who may have thought it was clever. Of all the people here who thought the post was a clever one, (me being one of them) I don’t know any of them who would have interpreted any of it the way you did. I don’t know anyone here who wouldn’t help someone in need. I don’t anyone here who is racist. I don’t know anyone here who doesn’t have sympathy for their persecuted ancestors.
    Yes, sarcasm understands sarcasm, but your post didn’t just come across as sarcastic, it came across as condemnation.
    If you didn’t mean it that way, I apologize. But that’s exactly how it read.

  • Alison Moore Smith May 2, 2008, 3:47 pm

    Ray, one more crack about female hormones and I’m going to force you into perimenopause.

  • Ray May 2, 2008, 4:52 pm

    You wouldn’t, Alison. That would be two in one house, which would constitute child abuse. Wouldn’t it?

  • Alison Moore Smith May 2, 2008, 5:59 pm

    Well, then there’s always the rack.

  • Ray May 2, 2008, 6:16 pm

    I’ll get back to you when I’ve decided.

  • Naismith May 3, 2008, 5:00 am

    …your post didn’t just come across as sarcastic, it came across as condemnation.

    And the difference is…???

    Serious question.

  • facethemusic May 3, 2008, 7:36 am

    Okay, Thursday night we had tornadoes touching down with lots of damage in the northern part of the city. If I were to say, “Lovely weather, eh?”, people would know I wasn’t actually SERIOUS. It was NOT “lovely weather”. I was being silly and sarcastic.
    If I said “Lovely, weather, eh? You gotta love a so-called ‘loving and merciful God’ who uses his power to manipulate people. Who crushes people under the weight of trees, houses and the neighbor’s 2 ton pick-up truck and then says “So NOW, will you worship me? NOT!!” (I’ve heard that kind of comment)
    That one is sarcastic AND condemning (of God.)

    So let’s use an example from the original post.
    One of the statements was

    “I also think [the police] have the right to pull you over if you’re breaking the law, regardless of what color you are. ”

    That is a completely logical statement that I know everyone here agrees with– you, Davidson, all of us. We are all subject to the law, regardless of skin color.
    The statement (most likely) was in reference to two things: One, the idea that many black people have, that the only reason they get pulled over is because they’re black. (My husband gets this ALL THE TIME. He came home furious just the other day– he was up on a bridge, running his lazer down on the highway below- the speed limit was 65. A car was weaving in an out of traffic, he put his beam on them- they were going 85, 86, 87– something like that, I remember he said it was almost 90. He zips down the ramp to pull right up behind him and lights him up. He’s black and cusses my husband out, calls him a racist *&$^% and sayd he pulled him over just because he’s black. And my husband’s like “I clocked you from half a mile away on top of a bridge. Do you really think I could see who was driving the car, or the color of your skin?” It happens all the time.) On the other hand, he’ll pull people over in their fancy, $40-$50,000 cars, (generally white, but sometimes black) and they always want to know why he’s pulling THEM over instead of hunting down some drug dealer in the inner city. (read-black people in the inner city)
    So- the statement as written was that police have the right to pull you over REGARDLESS of race, if you’re breaking the law.
    But what davidson wrote in her version condemns the writer of the post (and thereby anyone who agrees with it) as being a racist pig.

    Of course, I never break the law. I never speed. I always wear my seatbelt, every single time. I am a perfect citizen, Sunday through Monday. A perfect WHITE citizen. And that makes all the difference.

    Or this one, which originally said:

    I’ve never owned a slave, or was a slave, I haven’t burned any witches or been persecuted by the Turks, and neither have you!

    But davidson’s version added this:

    “therefore you have no right to be empathic toward your ancestors, or mine, who WERE (persecuted). The past is gone forever.”

    Just because the writer (or people who agree with it) feel that people NOW shouldn’t be acting like victims of slavery, witch burnings or the Turks, doesn’t mean that they feel there shouldn’t be any empathy toward their ancestors. All it means is this: stop acting like YOU are a victim of your ancestor’s persecution. It just so happens that my grandmother’s family WAS persecuted by the Turks, and I do have empathy for them. Which should be obvious to anyone who read my posts regarding the matter. But I’m not demanding that Turkey make reparations and give ME money for the harm and theft done to my ancestors. Neither has the church demanded reparations from Missouri for the theft and harm done to the early Saints.

    The additional statements assumed things, and for all intents and purposes condemned the writer and those who agreed with the post as being racist, unfeeling and selfish.

    She later said this

    “I exaggerated the things I wrote in my response to highlight the exaggeration in the original essay, not to declare my personal beliefs.”

    Personally, I don’t recall any exaggeration in the original post– I’ll check again.
    Honestly, I think there was a just a huge OVER REACTION to the post- it was meant to express the thoughts and feelings of many people, sometimes in a sarcastic or tongu-in-cheek way. But really, if we’re were all honest about it– they’re very logical and legitimate concerns and feelings, IF you read it without the ill-intent that it was assumed it include.

    And yes davidson– I love you, too. I honestly just thought you must have a really bad day or something. Your reponse didn’t sound like “you'”.

  • Alison Moore Smith May 3, 2008, 11:02 am

    I’ve never owned a slave, or was a slave, I haven’t burned any witches or been persecuted by the Turks, and neither have you!

    To me this this line is pointing out a victim mentality. Whether it be certain black leaders who dwell on slavery, Jewish leaders who dwell on the holocaust, or any other that doesn’t just remember the past, learn from it, and honor those who struggled, but might CARRY the past into the present when it no longer applies.

    For example, when people want reparations 100 years after an incident–when NO ONE involved in the incident is alive–seems to inhibit the ability to grow, learn, and move on.

    Frankly, I think the church is generally a GOOD example of acknowledging the past harms without living for them.

    On the other hand, I’m ready to inherent a whole stinking bunch of land that both my pioneer ancestors and Sam’s were driven from. Oh, and maybe we can press a lawsuit over “the forgotten martyr,” Samuel Smith. I’m seeing dollar signs all over the place. :tongue:

  • facethemusic May 3, 2008, 11:49 am

    Yeah, somewhere outside the city limits of Istanbul, Turkey and somewhere in Kapoot, Armenia there’s land that used to belong to my family, from which they were driven, chained to each other, and drowned in the Black Sea. Think if I show up in traditional Armenian garb with chains around my ankles and protest signs I can kick out whoever’s living on the land NOW and stake my claim? :shocked:

    And that Naismith, is sarcasm. :tooth:

  • Michelle D May 3, 2008, 2:48 pm

    “And to fill my gas tank this week took far more than the price of a Big Mac over what it cost me last week.”

    Of course those of us “bleeding-heart liberals” who care about climate change and believe in global warming are much less affected by this, since we already own hybrids (we average 48 miles per gallon on our Prius) and try to commute by bicycle and public transport whenever possible (I don’t think we fill the car tank twice a month).

    I still don’t think USAmerican gas prices come close to what they have been in Europe for decades. I have sympathy for individual families, but overall it’s the best thing that could happen to our country to stimulate policy changes (like making plug-in battery operated cars widely available here, which they have been in Switzerland for years).

    Naismith, you quote me about what I paid for gas and then imply that I don’t care about climate change and global warming?! Has it occurred to you that maybe not everyone has access to public transportation? That maybe not everyone can afford a new car in order to change to a hybrid? That maybe, due to family size, they CAN’T drive a car with just 4 or 5 seat belts? That one doesn’t *have* to be a “bleeding-heart liberal” to care about the environment?

    I live in a suburb of the third largest city in our state. Guess what? Public transportation doesn’t go out this far into the ‘burbs. It’s available downtown and into the edges of the closest suburbs. But not available where I need to travel most of the time. They’ve tried to expand the coverage area, but nobody wants to pay the taxes to have public transit available further out of the city proper. There have been a lot of opinion page editorials lately in our paper about getting the high school kids to take the school bus instead of driving. Guess what? Local levies are failing, and one of the things to go is busing for the high school students. A huge majority of the high school students in the greater metro area WOULD take the school bus IF IT WAS AVAILABLE! I won’t go into the family size or financial issues I mentioned above, but they are viable reasons for “appearing” not to care about these global concerns.

    I am sincerely happy for you that you are so lucky to have a hybrid and live in an area with public transportation and good, safe bike paths. But guess what? Not everyone in this country is so lucky, and just because they aren’t that lucky does NOT mean that they don’t care and don’t want to do something to make things better about the environment, the economy, and about stimulating policy changes.

    Sorry, but I feel no “sympathy for individual families” coming from your comment! All I get is a heavy dose of condescension.

  • Alison Moore Smith May 3, 2008, 3:50 pm

    FWIW, caring about the environment is utterly distinct from caring about “climate change” and believing in “global warming.”

    BTW, which is the “settled science” this week? Is it global warming or cooling? I just can’t keep up with Al’s latest posturing and world-wide trips on his private plane. (I’m pretty sure it’s an electric plane…)

  • Naismith May 3, 2008, 7:22 pm

    Naismith, you quote me about what I paid for gas and then imply that I don’t care about climate change and global warming?!

    I never said anything about whether you care or not about global warming. I have no idea. You didn’t say one way or another.

    I think it is clear that your stated concerns about gas (price) are different than my stated concerns (environmental harm). I appreciate that you may have other concerns that you didn’t state in that particular comment, just as I have other concerns (oil dependence costing American lives in wars in the Mideast).

    But I think it is a great thing that people whose concerns vary can still work together for a common goal. Maybe now with so many different reasons to make a change, we will get better mass transit and electric cars. It wasn’t happening when just “greenies” were concerned with such things.

    I stated that I was sympathetic. If that’s not good enough for you, I can only shrug. It’s not like I didn’t mention the plight of individuals.

    But I think one can acknowledge individual pain while simultaneously recognizing that something is better for the nation. I am also sorry for the pain of tobacco farmers who have had their livelihood affected by declining smoking rates, but I still think it is better for the greater good. I feel sympathy for factory workers and their families when a pollution-spewing plant is shut, but it is better for the greater good.

    And yes, while I appreciate the blessings of divine providence in what financial well being my family enjoys, the repeated use of the word “lucky” is rather dismissive description of my choices and sacrifices. It’s not like things fell into our laps with no effort on our part. We intentionally chose to live in a backwater town where our kids could cycle to the dentist, rather than accept jobs in Connecticut, Washington DC, etc. Yes, we were lucky to have another choice, but we made huge sacrifices in moving out to the sticks–luck was only one of many factor. It was a challenge to ride two kids to school in a bike trailer every day, especially uphill. And it doesn’t feel that lucky on a bicycle on a 20-degree winter morning or 90-degree summer afternoon. But I still do it because I think it is important.

  • Lewis_Family May 3, 2008, 11:51 pm

    I don’t think she meant for the term “lucky” to be dismissive of your sacrafices or degrading… it’s a cultural phrase, one that most people acknowledge as so, but apparently in your “backwater town” it is not since you appear to be taking offense from it.

  • Lewis_Family May 3, 2008, 11:53 pm

    Straight up, do you ever sometimes want to take dictatorship action over your site and ban certain people? :bigsmile:

  • Naismith May 4, 2008, 6:11 am

    t’s a cultural phrase, one that most people acknowledge as so,

    And how does this “cultural” meaning differ from the dictionary definition, of which mine says, “success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one’s own actions”?

    …since you appear to be taking offense from it.

    I’m not offended; I just think it is an inaccurate representation of the reasons why I can commute by bicycle, etc.

  • Lewis_Family May 4, 2008, 10:55 am

    Words can be adapted, though the dictionary might not define them as so. Lucky is like cool, though the dictionary may say one thing, we as a culture have used it in a different way. Other examples: sweet, tight, hot, swell…

  • Alison Moore Smith May 4, 2008, 10:58 am

    Yea. I have banned one person–a couple of years ago. But I generally reserve that for something pretty significant, like badmouthing the church directly, cursing or vulgarity, etc. Not just general crankiness. :)

  • Lewis_Family May 4, 2008, 11:00 am

    How about suspension? :wink: Ofcourse, I am only kidding :smile:

  • Alison Moore Smith May 4, 2008, 11:09 am

    There’s always the rack.

    I think that will be my stock answer to any and all questions this week. :D

  • Lewis_Family May 4, 2008, 1:40 pm

    ha

  • Michelle D May 6, 2008, 9:32 pm

    Naismith, you are correct in saying that I dismissed your efforts in saying you were lucky. I believe you have worked hard and made sacrifices to get where you are. I also believe you are lucky. I apologize for not fully explaining myself. However, I stand by my statement that whether you intended it this way or not, your comments still come across as being condescending to anyone who doesn’t share your lifestyle. Others have also worked hard and sacrificed, even if they don’t bicycle in 20 or 90 degree weather.

    I am agreeing to disagree (and to agree – we do share some opinions on what has been said), and am moving on.

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