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Next week the youth of our ward are leaving for Youth Conference! (Look out Nauvoo!) And I've got a question. How much Diet Coke is acceptable for me (the Young Women president) to drink on the trip?
I drink Diet Coke. Lots of it.
For weeks now, I have intended to start cutting back, so that on the youth conference five full days on a large bus, sleeping in hotels I would not look like a crack addict searching for a fix every time we hit a truck stop. Now that we are two days away, I'm thinking its kind of late to begin that process.
Most of my young women know that I drink the stuff. It's not something I really hide. Certainly my own daughters know. It's just that I don't want to admit to anyone including myself, really how much I drink. And just so you've got the full picture, it's around 60-70 ounces a day. Heck that's not even two Big Gulps, once you count the ice, right? My problem is that as a Young Women president, I think I am supposed to show a better example.
So I have been racking my brain trying to figure out whether to try to hide it (I have been considering taking a couple of 12 packs in my suitcase. Do you think anyone would notice if I wear the same clothes every day?) or just come right out, grab that microphone in the front of the bus and announce, “Welcome to the trip. I'm Sister H and I have a drinking problem.” I'm not really in love with either option.
At this point, it would be appropriate to use a paragraph or two about how addictions of any sort are bad, and it hurts us physically and spiritually, and convince you that I really understand that this is a problem. Really, I could do it, but can we just agree that I already know it's a problem? If we can skip the comments and emails telling me it's a problem, I could really use some advice.
Do you think that it's more important for the Young Women to see a better example, or for them to know that we all have things we are working on doing better? Or am I making this a bigger deal than it is? After all, I read my scriptures, don't swear in front of children, have a modest bathing suit, and even shave my legs. What's a little (or a lot of) Diet Coke?
Alison Moore Smith is a 61-year-old entrepreneur who graduated from BYU in 1987. She has been (very happily) married to Samuel M. Smith for 40 years. They are parents of six incredible children and grandparents to two astounding grandsons. She is the author of The 7 Success Habits of Homeschoolers.
I choked on my Crystal Light (my beverage addiction of choice) while reading. My side hurts. I’m OK now.
First, I’d just like to point out that addictions of any sort are bad, and it hurts us physically and spiritually…
Hey Alison! Wipe that Crystal Light off the monitor (and go get some more) and then tell me what you think I should do!
My current strategy is to take a refillable plastic cup. See, then nobody really knows how many times its been refilled. I can just keep running in “for ice”.
I don’t even think they will pay attention… maybe I’m wrong.
lol!
My advice is to take a jar of aspirin to ward off the caffeine-withdrawal headaches, and use this as your opportunity to quit cold turkey.
FWIW,
I am friends with a daughter of a Church leader who will remain unnamed. She tells the story of her mom and her Coke drinking. The husband’s advice? (paraphrased) “If you are going to drink it, just don’t hide it.”
I’m not big on passing on hearsay stories, but that came to mind. This is a tough issue, actually, because I’m always worried about doing something that might make someone have an idea in their head that “it’s ok to do suchandsuch because I saw Sister Linford do suchandsuch. That said, I think as much as I want to protect people from my weaknesses, sometimes it’s good just to be upfront about it, especially when you have a good relationship with them. Let them know you are working on it (and maybe even how hard it IS to work on it — teach them as you go!) Not that I’m a fan of laying out all of our weaknesses for all to see, but sneaking around your girls seems potentially more harmful than good to me.
Either that, or go cold turkey! 🙂
You’re too funny Randi! Between the jokes though, I did sense the sincere side.
Having JUST gotten home from a week at Girl’s camp, (literally, about 10 minutes ago)
I have a few thoughts on this.
(I really should be unloading my van, but right now, after a few hours of packing and cleaning up the campsite and a couple hours driving home, I just want to sit in the air conditioning and relax!)
Your concern actually came up a few times at camp, concerning a couple different circumstances, but all boiling down to the girls’ impressions of us as their leaders, and how they react when they see our weaknesses or think our behavior is questionable.
We had a few girls who had pretty strong reactions to seeing their leaders bringing in cases of Diet Coke and Pepsi. I don’t mean to turn this into a Caffeine vs. no-caffeine debate. We’ve already hopped in and out of that discussion on Mormon Momma quite a few times. And your concern didn’t appear to be one about the caffeine anyway- just more about being ‘addicted’ to something – whether it be Diet Coke or fried pork rinds.
I only bring it up because it WAS a concern to some of the girls, so I’m speaking to the issue of the girls expecting us to be good examples and their disappointment and feeling like we’ve let them down when we do something that might be questionable.
Two of the girls pulled me aside and told me that their leader had brought cases of Pepsi and asked if I thought they should say something. (A pretty serious incident happened last week with some of our girls. I won’t go into the details, but it happened with a leader’s approval. Another leader present did NOT approve, but because the other leader had given consent, she didn’t say anything, and later she was very tearful, regretful and apologetic for not speaking up. Parents were extremely upset, as were other leaders and the Stake had to get involved to try and correct the situation. So I think some of the girls are especially sensitive right now about the subject of “speaking up” when they feel that values and standards aren’t being held up) Anyway, one of the girls said “the girls look up to her, but she’s setting a bad example”, and that she was “truly disappointed”.
During dinner on Tuesday, I was sitting with the other stake leaders, just behind one of wards. One of the first-years was heading toward the food line, passed her leader who was sitting down and whispered in her leader’s ear. Her leader then reached around her back and tugged at the bottom of her shirt, trying to cover the 4-5 inches of her garments that were showing out the top of her pants. It didn’t cover.
A different leader said something to me- mid-week sometime. “Could one of you PLEASE ask the leaders to wear pants that cover their garments? My girls keep making comments about leaders’ underwear showing”. She explained that she was especially upset, because one of her girls who was a JC was asked to change her shorts by another leader, because they we’re too short. But that same girl later pointed out to her, the exposed garments of the same sister who’d earlier asked her to changed her shorts. Her drop-waist pants exposed the backside of her garments every time she sat down.
I’d already noticed myself that we had SEVERAL leaders who were wearing drop-waist pants, and everytime they sat down, about 4-5 inches of their garments were exposed on their backsides. Every now and then they’d reach around and tug at the back of their shirts– (which clearly indicated that they realized that they’re religion may be showing) But often, their shirts STILL didn’t cover their underwear. Or all it would take was for them to turn or twist their torso, stand up, etc, and their garments were once again exposed.
Frankly, I mySELF was “truly disappointed”. For heaven’s sake– what’s the deal with so many LDS women thinking that it’s okay to dress in such a way that everyone can see their underwear?? Do they think that just because garments are white and modest that it’s okay for them to be seen?
I’m pretty confidant that if their YW were sitting down with 4-5 inches of red silk panties or thongs showing out the tops of the back waistline of their jeans that they’d say something to their YW– so why do THEY wear pants that show THEIR underwear?
Anyway- I think that the girls already KNOW that we have weaknesses, that we’re not perfect, etc. But just because we have weaknesses, it doesn’t mean that we need to expose those weaknesses to those we’re serving in an attempt to be honest or expose “who we really are”. We’re supposed to be good examples for them. There’s a difference between pretending to be perfect, and setting a good example. If I have a bad habit of cursing when I get angry, picking my nose or not flushing, am I trying to pretend that I’m perfect or am I being hypocritical by making a concerted effort to avoid my bad habits in front of the YW?
My husband is someone who drinks “leaded soda”– but he didn’t take any of his Diet Mountain Dew to Scout camp this week. I’ll bet he probably has a good headache right now after 5 days of no caffeine (he always gets headaches when he tries to “wean” himself).
He personally doesn’t feel like the caffeine itself is a religious issue (though he DOES realize that he depends on it too much) but because he recognizes that it IS widely accepted throughout church membership that “mormons don’t drink caffeine”, he doesn’t drink it in front of his YM. Some might say that that’s being hypocritical. But I don’t think so. He knows that the YM look up to him, and look to him as an example, so he doesn’t do anything that they might consider to be “questionable” in front of them.
My husband and I occasionally drink cola drinks and I don’t really think that is a bad thing, except for the fact that caffeine isn’t very healthy. However, I am hosting a neighborhood party tonight and when I went to the store I couldn’t get myself to buy any caffeinated drinks for the party. Most people associate Mormons with not drinking these types of drinks and I didn’t want to set a bad example, or have them think I don’t follow the tenets of my church, even though I don’t believe it is really a tenet anyway.
Tracy,
So are you saying it is better to
1. not drink it at all and suffer the headaches
2. sneak around and hide the drinking (this sounds funny seeing as we are talking about coke) 😉
3. drink openly but not say anything
4. drink openly and talk openly?
I was in particular uncomfy with sneaking it around them, deliberately hiding while she is there. That seems to me nearly as problematic as ‘fessing up.
Of course we should try to do our best around our girls (or anyone who could be vulnerable), but if the choice is between sneaking it and pretending you’re not or drinking openly, I would choose the latter I guess I’m feeling like I personally wouldn’t feel good about sneaking around my girls, but that may just be me. Either I’d give it up and have headaches or I’d be open with them and let them know it’s not something I’m necessarily proud of (or whatever…”I’m trying to quit”) but I’m not there yet. What seems to me to be bothersome about what your leaders did is they packed the stuff in so the girls could see it, but acted like it wouldn’t matter (same with their clothes — pet peeve alert!!!!). Either don’t do it or don’t pretend it’s nothing. Because to the girls, it will be something. But if they find out you are sneaking it around, is that going to be better? (Because they could find out, ya know?)
I dunno…sorting as I speak. 🙂
Well, the girls definitely know I like Diet Coke. It’s not like I have ever tried to hide that. What I’m trying to decide about hiding is the extent of my addiction. (sheesh – do I sound sick or what? If only I could check myself into re-hab before the trip!)
It sounds like maybe a healthy dose of Excedrin and one Diet Coke a day is probably the answer. I think that with that sort of appearance of moderation, probably Heather is right and nobody will notice.
It will probably also be a good start on the quitting process. The only problem with the cold turkey thing is the irritability. The headaches I can handle, but I really don’t want to have an extra reason to be irritable. Lack of sleep will give me plenty of reason to be irritable, I’m sure.
This discussion has been really eye-opening! I would love to hear more thoughts!
Now I’ve gotta go buy some longer shirts. 😉
I’m ignorant on the issue, but wouldn’t caffeine pills help curb the problem?
Oh – and I’m not that far from YW age (hah!) but I would have appreciated it if a leader actually spoke to me like I was an intelligent creature capable of making my own decisions about what was right and wrong for me and not completely impressionable to their “example.” Honestly, I didn’t really bother myself so much about what my leaders were doing as much as I did about how they treated me.
Girls!
Considering the money you spend on it, and that it isn’t that great for your health (that’s not even getting into the caffeine debate) I do think this might be the perfect time to just quit cold turkey. You might be a little irritable, but I’m sure being around a bunch of “happy” kids would make this the best time ever to be so. They’ll cheer you right up! (P.S. Don’t forget your excedrin!!)
BTW, I used to drink a lot of dc myself. Still do occasionally.
Well– with my husband it isn’t a matter of having headaches that he “treats” with caffeine. (Some medicines like Excedrin, actually contain caffeine as an ingredient to treat the headache) He gets headaches that are caused by “caffeine withdrawal”. He’s convinced that the headaches are a product of his body going through withdrawal from not getting the caffeine, much the same way an alcoholic or drug addict goes through withdrawal when they try to quit their addiction. The headaches go away after a week or so. (He’s quit drinking caffeine a few times, then hopped back on the wagon 🙂
I know! Haites here we come!! :):devil:
No– I don’t think sneaking or trying hide is good either. That was sort of my point is talking about my husband at camp this week. He isn’t sneaking… he didn’t take any with him. So he’s not having to sneak or hide or hide anything.
And like Randi– his boys know that he DOES drink caffeine. Well, I don’t know if they know that he STILL drinks it. But, if I remember right, it came up during a lesson one Sunday–they were talking about recognizing your faults and making a goal out of trying to conquer something and he told them he was trying to cut out the soda.
Did I say something that sounded like that? If I did I didn’t mean to.
I think that would be absurd, especially with kids. Can you imagine that with the hypothetical cussing problem?
You welcome all the girls to Young Women, and start cussing when you can’t find your opening exercises outline, then say “Yes, I admit it, I have a problem with cussing, I really need to quit” then continue to cuss while you’re looking for your outline.
Just wanted to poke my head in and say, “Welcome, Tammy!!”
Continue discussion.
I think that would be absurd, especially with kids. Can you imagine that with the hypothetical cussing problem?
Sorry, Tracy, I wasn’t clear. My point was specifically with this drinking issue. It doesn’t work generalized to anything else. 🙂
BTW, I knew you meant withdrawal headaches. 🙂
Well, I think it still applies though, generalized to pretty much anything. I think if someone thinks they shouldn’t be drinking a Diet Coke, then it would be absurd to stand in front of the Young Women, drinking it, and thinking it’s okay as long as you’re being honest with them and telling them that you know you shouldn’t be, (if you really do feel you shouldn’t be) but then continue to do it anyway.
Now, for someone who really thinks there’s nothing wrong with it, then that’s a different story, and I’m not really sure how to handle that one. I wasn’t sure how to handle it at camp either. All I told the girls was that since it hasn’t been declared from a pulpit in conference, and doesn’t keep you out of the temple, that people feel differently about it. One of them asked how I felt, and I told her I don’t drink it. I told them that I understood their concern, but since there isn’t really a clear cut answer on it, its a little harder to address than if her leader had brought beer. They just laughed at that.
( As a side note, the Stake provided all the food and drink for camp, and we did not serve anything with Caffeine.)
But I don’t see how standing there drinking it, while admitting outloud and personally feeling that you shouldn’t be, is any different than the cussing example. (Other than the fact that ‘cussing’ is a clear no-no, and Diet Coke is not. But again– I’m talking about the idea of doing something (anything) we ourselves believe we shouldn’t be doing, saying that to the kids, but then continue doing it.
Here’s an example– another one from camp this week. I had a horrible time trying to find a swimsuit for camp– couldn’t find anything that was modest both up top and down below. If it was modest in the chest it was backless to the butt, or had really high french-cut hips, etc. If it was modest below, with a little skirt or whatever, then it was really low cut up top, or had an opening between the breasts, or was backless all the way down to the top of the butt. I went ahead and got one, and figured I’d just wear a T-shirt over it. But the morning I was packing to go, I thought–“What if they can still see the suit through a wet T-shirt?” I was worried about what they’d think, to see that a Stake leader would wear an immodest bathing suit, even if under a T-shirt. They might wonder why I even owned it. I didn’t want there to even be a question. If a Stake leader is wearing an immodest bathing suit, then it must not be that big of a deal for them to wear one either, right? So I ended up not even packing it and didn’t swim all week. I just couldn’t imagine myself telling the YW that I knew it was immodest, but that I’d bought it anyway, figuring I’d cover it up. I’d rather not swim at all, than have any of the girls doubt my sincerity. Especially when our theme was “Live Your Values”! If anyone said anything, I could’ve just explained my dilemna in trying to find a modest suit and that that’s why I was wearing a T-shirt over it. But I didn’t want to have to explain anything either. If I didn’t wear it, then I wouldn’t have to worry about anyone questioning or doubting my commitment to modesty, or feeling like I’d let them down in the ‘example’ department.
Now, I could have told them that story. I didn’t actually. But I could have– maybe during my devotional about Living Your Values in Your Daily Life. Gee— I didn’t even think about that until just now. Hello, stupid? Wake up, Tracy! That would have been a great example, like Randi mentioned, of showing how even we, as adults and leaders have our struggles, that we’re not perfect, etc. But it would have been totally different for me to have actually WORN it in front of them, trying to explain why I was, while admitting openly that I shouldn’t be wearing it.
I guess my point is that it’s one thing to have a vice, a weakness or whatever and admit it, but it’s another thing entirely to admit it, then stand right in front of the people you’re suppossed to be setting an example for and commit it.
Oh– and since you did realize that I meant withdrawal headaches, then yes, I think it’s better to suffer the headaches for a few days. Minor thing in the long run.
THe difference:
the right to “cuss” ends where another’s ears begin.
diet coke only affects the body of the person drinking it.
Very valid point, Daisy! (My favorite flower by the way!!)
Except that, I think the orginal question (unless I’m remembering wrong) had to do with what we do in front of others, so in that respect, I think it adds a different part to the equation.
As I mentioned before, my father continued to drink alcohol even after he joined the church.
That only affected HIS body, and was a personal choice. But it would have been highly inappropriate of him to bring a bottle of Jagermeister and openly drink it at church, or to bring one along if he was chaperoning a scout hike or something.
Of course, again– we’re discussing Diet Coke, so it’s kind of hard to address that specifically.
Part of the nefarious aspect of any addiction – and I do mean any addiction – is that is seems to affect only the one committing it, but in reality affects everyone around them in ways not always easily seen until it is too late.
Too true Silver!
I wouldn’t suggest quitting cold turkey just before a youth trip. Yikes, like you need a physical reason for a headache in addition to all the reasons the kids and traffic will give you?
My take is to go ahead and drink what you want, but don’t blare it from the house tops that you’re filling up your mega-mug for the eighth time. Just buy it and drink it. If one of the girls brings it up, tell them you’re drinking Diet Coke and that you wish you didn’t drink so much. Let the conversation run a while, then ask them what they do too much and if they wish they could do less of something. Maybe one girl brings up the fact that her constant iPod addiction is affecting her grades, or someone else talks about shopping too much or watching tv too much. Don’t feel like you need to insert a cheesy moral, just let them talk. If the girls come to a resolution, go with it. If it was just a conversation, then that was good too. And if your iPod addict says she’ll unplug as long as you drink water, then fill up with water at the next pit stop.
Love the post…and I was not spitting Crystal Lite on the screen, but Diet Coke!!! And I think it was fizzing out my nose! I share the same “addiction” per se with you and I’ve contemplated withdrawal many times. The first thing that came to mind was a trip our youth took to Palmyra to see the Hill Cumorah Pagent a few years ago. They left at night with the intention of the youth “sleeping” through the night on the way up (about a 10-12 hour drive with stops). Anyway @ the 1st stop, all the kids piled out of the bus & promptly pillaged the local 7-11 of every Red Bull & Jolt that was in the cooler & on the shelf. So, I’m thinking that maybe the Diet Coke might not be the issue!!! Suffice to say, there wasn’t much sleep on the bus. I think the leaders were drinking Red Bull by the time the trip was over (JUST KIDDING). I can’t bear to think of the withdrawal headaches I would have if I stopped abruptly, all the while dealing with youth on a trip & all the accompanying drama. In all honesty, here’s a question..I suffer from migraines, so do I take a prescription drug EVERYDAY that has 3 times the amount of caffeine in it or drink 3-4 Diet Cokes. I guess if you do the math, I would be getting the same amount of caffeine, but I would probably have to take more than 1 pill per day. But the Diet Cokes keep the migraines at bay. So, it’s medicinal, right? And before anyone says any comments that caffeine causes migraines, yes it does & I have gone without caffeine for weeks & guess what, the migraines remained and intensified, they were not re-bound headaches but true migraines. So, I self medicate & will continue to do so. But I take my Diet Coke in my red Costco Cup to the Family History Center and let them wonder!!!
Very Interesting thread.
FWIW,
1. This conversation makes me very grateful that I chose not to ever start the caffeine drink habit, even though it’s not officially banned, and
2. I know how much my children adore and look to their youth leaders, and I appreciate those that do not drink caffeinated drinks leading to the, “Sister so and so drinks it, so why can’t I?” Which leads me to my disagreement with
Everything we do affects those around us. That doesn’t mean we have to base all of our actions on someone else’s choices. However, again, I am grateful to YW and YM leaders who model the kind of behavior I hope to see my children follow because when they don’t, without fail, it leads to a discussion on my own parenting style. Interestingly, my kids don’t always question my parenting style— sometimes they are shocked at the behavior of the leaders and wonder why they would make such choices– but they ALWAYS notice! That just comes with the calling!
Ask the Lord what He would have you do. The fact that you posted this thread leads me to believe that deep down you really feel like you should not drink diet coke on the trip (I could be wrong— just stating my observation). If that’s the case, I suggest you ask the Lord for His help in going cold turkey and making this the turning point on an addiction you clearly would like to be rid of. I promise He will help you.
Let’s take caffeine out of the equation for a moment.
The last couple of years I have struggled with my weight, and everything I read tells me not to drink soda of any kind if I want to lose weight. Also any soda just really isn’t very good for you – has no nutritional value, etc. I know that caffeine is the big issue to a lot of people, but to me it’s more about taking things in that are good for our overall health.
What if you drank caffeine-free dc. would that make a difference? I don’t really think so. To me it ‘s about taking in vast amounts of something that really isn’t great for you regardless of the caffeine content.
I still say cold turkey it and consider it a gift that this was your inspiration to do so.
I agree with your whole concept. I confess though, that I’m not very educated on this issue because I don’t drink soda either. I’m a water and skim milk kind of girl! So why am I not my perfect weight? That would be lack of exercise— so maybe I should be looking at the issue of ‘sins of omission’ vs. ‘sins of commission.’ Anyone want to make a deal and check up on me every day to see if I exercised!?!
Ok, I tought about this long and hard and I came up with a solution:
The Diet Coke Intravienous Delivery System and Carry Case (TM, Patent Pending etc)
The Diet Coke Intravenous Delivery System and Carry Case or, DCIVDSCC for short, is simple and easy to use. You instal an IV port in your femoral artery–for maximum concelement. The IV is conncected to a bladder (no pun intended) full of your delighfully caffeinated brown fizzy elixr of your choice. The bladder (still no pun intended) is concealed in a “designer” (well someone had to design it) bag–which you will keep with you at all times and can also function as a purse for carrying other things–like asprin and ear plugs for those times when the delightful chirps and burps of teenagers become too hard to handle. The designer element of the purse, will help you radiate style while helping you partake of the sanity that only a Diet Coke can provide.
I expect to have the proto-type anyday now….have fun on your trip!
LOLOL . . . EastofEden. I can’t WAIT to see your final product!
:clap::crazy::rolling::thumbup: That is hilarious.
eden, I think you’ve found your calling in life…
Your invention would be AWESOME for my husband. He’s on the police department and rides the Harley. So he no longer has a cup holder to put his Diet Coke in! It was the ONE draw back to switching from a patrol car to the bike! I think even having to ride in the rain is less burdensome to him than not having a Diet Coke within reach!
I have to tell you that this was a big issue for me recently! Our Stake’s youth conference this year was a pioneer trek held over memorial day weekend (i’m in the Stake YW presidency). The biggest thing I worried about beforehand was
how on earth
I was going to live without diet coke…I probably drink 70+ oz a day. A good friend of mine is in the Stake YM presidency and he smuggled one diet coke up for me (he drove his own car, didn’t go on the bus with the rest of us). I had a terrible headache most of the time and should have thought about taking Excedrin. I have been addicted to diet coke for a long time, but have never really thought much about it. Being faced with this type of situation really made me ponder my addiction to diet coke. However, I have to say that none of the girls (or their mothers) in my Stake would think negatively about a leader who drinks (a lot) of diet coke~
It is not the caffeine in the diet coke that is addictive. It is the nutrasweet. That stuff is literally a poison and very addictive. I know that this is after the fact but I have been a diet coke drinker, I have seen how aged it makes big drinkers look and how it changes the chemical composition of your cells. Do a bit of research and learn what it is doing to your body it will make quitting so much easier. You can do it!
A few sources:
“A Web of Deceit”
“Aspartame and its effects on health”
“Aspartame”
Aspartame is one of the most intensively scrutinized food additives and has been deemed safe by the American Medical Association, the World Health Organization (WHO) and over 100 food regulatory agencies over the world.
Personally, I like Truvia and have also used Splenda.