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Please join us to discuss Escape.
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- CommentAuthorAlison Moore Smith
- CommentTimeMay 4th 2008
Kathy this is a great and timely review. Thank you! -
Great review, and I look forward to reading the book. With recent events, I've really been wondering what is happening behind the scenes and with the thought processes of those involved.
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- CommentAuthorfacethemusic
- CommentTimeMay 4th 2008
She gradually sees for herself that nonmembers of her cult are not the diabolical monsters she was warned about.
Sounds like M. Night Shamalyan's "The Village"!! (Highly recommend watching it if you like thriller/suspense films) Only it's real life. -
I want to believe Ms. Jessup (I really do.), since I do believe the situation had deteriorated significantly since Jeffs took over leadership, but she just keeps making allegations that seem a little too . . . "convenient", for lack of a better word. I also know of other people who have left the FLDS whose accounts are markedly different than Ms. Jessup's.
The latest example, if I understand it properly, is her allegation that the men would waterboard infants in the sink in order to control them. First, I have a very hard time believing that such actions would be tolerated if known, but I also see that she (apparently) did not make this claim until national attention was focused by the Texas raid - and that simply is not something you would forget or forget to mention earlier. She just seems like a stereotypical ex-FLDS, acting like some of those who have left our own church and will say just about anything in order to hinder our work.
What she claims is appalling. If I am incorrect about this and other similar things I have heard, and if she is correct, it is unbelievable and should be handled as directly and unmercifully as is allowed by law. I just have a hard time accepting her as a credible source of information. -
- CommentAuthorAlison Moore Smith
- CommentTimeMay 4th 2008
Although I understand your concerns about this particular woman's claims--and know really nothing more than the average new-watcher about the FLDS in particular--I don't find the claims to be out-of-the-ballpark unbelievable. I have read parenting guides (generally offered by fundamentalist Christian publishers/lecturers/groups) that advocate all sorts of stuff that most of us would consider harsh, if not abusive.
One that comes to mind is the method for getting a baby to go to sleep by laying her down in the crib, sitting next to her, and whacking her with a spoon each time she lifted her head. Can't remember if that was the Babywise group (Ezzo) or another. Often it's in the name of showing exacting obedience to parents, etc. -
I know about those tactics, Alison, but, as I said, it's more the timing of the most egregious allegations that concerns me. I tend to believe here initial claims; I just have a hard time believing the ones she has made since she became "popular" with the media. I see a move toward hyperbole that is troubling.
That's really my concern, in a nutshell. Her earlier allegations gave a solid basis for removing all teenage girls from their "spiritual husbands," but her later allegations almost read as an exaggerated justification for removing ALL kids from ALL parents. It's almost like she said, "Ooh, now I have a chance to shut down the entire group. SWEET!!"
Again, I might be wrong about this, since I'm dealing only with very subjective impressions and accounts from others who have left the FLDS - not one of whom I am aware who has made allegations of things like the waterboarding abuse. -
Waterboarding infants? Do I want to know?
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no!
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- CommentAuthorAlison Moore Smith
- CommentTimeMay 5th 2008
Ray, honestly my reaction was similar when I heard her in an interview. Don't know what to think, but I do think it's problematic to look to disaffected members as THE source for information. The FLDS need their own Jan Shipps. -
Ray, thanks for your balance. It's true that you can't believe everything you read. There's also a perverse ethical question. If members of FLDS communities genuinely believe in their lifestyle and accept their disciplinary sanctions freely, it becomes a thorny issue. I think it's a legitimate concern when cult leaders punish any communication outside their walls, confiscate books, ban TV, etc. These tactics prevent members from exercising free will because they deny information. I also believe power is rarely relinquished willingly; especially "unrighteous dominion." Historically, it has always required a revolution. There will be tragedy and chaos as radical cults are confronted by legal authorities. Separation of church and state will be hammered out, with imperfect solutions on both sides. Removing kids from parents is an impossible puzzle in any case of criminal neglect or endangerment. The kids are heartbroken either way. My thought is this: Anyone who does not choose to stay should have the basic human right to leave. Anyone who questions religious or political beliefs has the right to freedom of speech as an American citizen. And women obviously have the same civil rights as men. I hope those who are confronted with the social clash will find a way to resolve the worst of the criminal behavior with the least trauma to the families involved.
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Naomi, Jeffs' niece, who was also interviewed, mentioned the water torture too if I am remembering correctly.
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CommentAuthoreast-of-eden
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
So Kathy...
Does the author mention how they worshiped? I've read sevearl other accounts from people who left the FLDS and they said that when Rulon Jeffs took over things got bad, no music, outside things, and then when Warren took over there were no books at all allowed not even the Bible. So did/do these people read the scriptures, have "church" meetings and such? -
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Carolyn touches on that in her book, but she had stopped going to church early on. She did elaborate on the book ban. She was a school teacher, and she had a private collection of award-winning children's books, all of which were confiscated. According to reports from her close friends, church soon turned into another form of intimidation, with lengthy rants against whomever Jeffs was down on. I sent an Email to Naomi, Jeffs' niece, who has been sharing the spotlight since the El Dorado raid. Naomi does not publish her last name, but she sent me a detailed message about the problem as she sees it. One of Naomi's comments was the hypocrisy of such vicious cruelty while preaching Christian doctrine and insisting that the purpose of the isolated compound was to further God's work. So there must have been some bible teaching at one time. It was stunning to her that Jeffs and others, especially the principal of the private school, pretended to be Christian while savagely beating children every day just to intimidate them.
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This may be a small point, but Barbara was not Merrill's first wife. I believe she was his third (it's been a few months since I've read the book); however, according to Carolyn, Barbara was his favorite wife.
Just wanted to clarify! Thanks for the review. -
- CommentAuthorAlison Moore Smith
- CommentTimeMay 18th 2008
abish19, welcome to Mormon Momma! -
- CommentAuthorAlison Moore Smith
- CommentTimeMay 18th 2008
Now, isn't that "favorite wife" thing pretty much the VERY thing that makes it most repugnant? -
Agreed, Alison. Ouch to the heart. Imagine being the "nonfavorite" wife.
Abish19, yes, welcome! I am fascinated by your name. Abish is one of my favorite woman heroes in the Book of Mormon, and I have always wished we knew more about her. (By the way, I refuse to call them heroines. Having a favorite heroine might get you arrested!) -
Posted By: abish19This may be a small point, but Barbara was not Merrill's first wife. I believe she was his third (it's been a few months since I've read the book); however, according to Carolyn, Barbara was his favorite wife.
Just wanted to clarify! Thanks for the review.
Good point, Abish. Thanks. I think Ruth, the woman who eventually suffered from delusions, was ahead of Barbara chronologically. Faunita was first, per page 76. I think you are right; that places Barbara at number three.
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